GS Trainging: LCCJ

[Tom M-W]

Hi Mat / All,

I asked Mat were he was in regard to the LCCJ with 2 x 24kg on another forum page, but decided to swap it over here. Mat wrote that he does about 4mins @ 8rpm.

I did a test 2 days ago and struggled and splattered for about 4.20 mins but at only about 4-5rpm. This was oppressive and awkward, leaving me to revert to power movements and breathing etc. I also didn't have the strength to maintain smooth movements, and controlled transitions through the racking points. My cleans got very messy. This was quite a foolish test as I had only received my 24kg progrades a few days before - so it was a cold run (we've all done this, right!). Although, perhaps it was a reasonable effort to just keep them of the ground for that time? Almost half way up the mountain - so to speak. I'd be really happy with 10 mins @ 4rpm.

So I'm wondering where other people are at, and what advice do you have for moving on to heavier LCCJ weights?

Naturally the obvious are stepping up from 2 x 16's, by going OA LCCJ with 24kg or 2 x 20kg, maybe I'm just not natural! Clearly, acclimatizing to the heavier weight is in order, with emphasis on the rack, lockout holds for time, and just plan old strength / and conditioning to manage the work.

Paul, has advised squats, presses, and OA jerks with a heavier weight (with an emphasis on holding the lockout for time). All of which are going to be part of my training. And yesterday I played with a squat complex: 2 x24kg - clean, front squat, jerk, over head squat, rack, front squat (10 sets). This seemed to hit all the right places. Double cleans will also play a large part of my work as my cleans seem to get out of control, especially at the reigning in / racking point.

As I'm really new to GS, I also have to recognise that there is no short cuts, and patiently have to pay my training dues.

Any thoughts?

Tom

[albi]

Tom if it was easy....

essentially as with most of the things Paul posts its spot on. You will only start to feel more comfortable with the heavier bells is by lifting even heavier bells :lol: (SAID). Bear in mind that the tasgirevik also seems to have a passion for lifting large stones.

I would imagine if you only lifted 20kg bells for 20 minutes you would still find the 24's awkward. If you think thats awkward then try cleaning a couple of 32's for reps. The first time I did it I thought I was almost going to snap in half :wink: ...however perseverance, consistency etcetera (I went from 24's to 32's although I did have a 40 for a couple months before getting my 2nd 32)... I really benefited from lots of 40 swings, squats, OH squats etc and then with the 2 32's lots of rack holds, full squats...farmers walks in OH etc.

I started with trying to clean them for 10 x 3 sets resting for as long as necessary in between, then clean and jerk, jerks buidling up to 10 x 10 before working on the timed sets because I then felt I had the necessary strength...however I reckon it would have been easier if I had invested in a set of 28's. As a mate has - brought them round a month or so ago...ahh the sweet ease those puppies got thrown around after the crushing weight of the 32's *sighs*

Also, to start with you wont be doing 2 minute timed sets straight off the bat (with the heavy stuff). So dont be afraid to mix up your training with some heavier and power work every now and then for a few weeks...If nothing else it will keep you sane. I'm playing with my sandbag and sledgehammer at the moment and will get back to gs style at the end of the month -although I still do a few of the key kb lifts (except jerks) to keep the groove. Its really testing me out and training my weakpoints....the 32s will definitely feel a bit more comfortable as a result - I have no doubt.

Enjoy!

[Tom M-W]

Lift heavier weights, yep!! So obvious that sometimes these simple points can be missed.

On this point I've created a little dilemma for myself. To purchase my set of prograde pairs (16,20,24kg,) I sold my classic 16, 24, 32kg pairs. Now I'm down the 'heavier' weight so to speak ( I don't have a barbell, etc).

I was thinking that 2 x 24kg would keep me every busy for a long time, but working some heavier weight is necessary( My comp weight is probably the 16's maybe 20's). I was thinking of getting a '40kg KB bulldog' for this. But maybe other options are better. What do people recommend? I've got about $300 to play with, I'm keen to get some Power Rings, and perhaps a heavy KB (32, 36, 40) or a Sandbag.

A sandbag maybe the go for heavier dead lifts, squats, lunges, high step ups.

I've played with pairs of KB's in one hand (20 & 24 per hand) and doing dead lifts, but this is a little clumsy, and therefore unsafe. Also I can manage the 88kgs comfortably. Maybe in the long run the oly bumpers are the go (if ever possible $$$) or a cheaper BB set.

Re: High step ups. Last night I was bored so I was reading through the old posts on this forum, I came to a post by Paul about Leg strength and a link to a article about the benefit of high step ups, as opposed to squats. This article made a lot of sense to me. As the movement gets as good results, is more functional, it requires less weight to be lifted, and there is less risk of injury. A deep squat is not possible for me as I have torn cartilages in my knees (surgeon recommends no OP- better in the long run.) I can do a 'just' below parallel squat without any probs. Any thoughts?

Cheers Tom

[albi]

Dude get a sandbag...its $100, the sand is $6/20kg at Bunnings. You've then got a variable weight tool from 30-90kg. If you can lift an 80kg sandbag you'll have few problems with heavier kbs's...and get a 32. That'd be my choice for the $300...remember you can also do one legged deadlifts with KB's and do them off a small platform to make them tougher - surprisingly demanding.

[Bronson]

hey guys really new to the GS stuff here and only in my first week of attempting proper work outs.

I am finding that I am comforatble enough with the OALC C+J but really struggle regardless of weight to lock out @ KBs OH comfortably. I am just working on shoulder mobility, OH holds at present on top of Paul's Program. Any other tips regarding the lockout position ??

cheers

Jason

[albi]

Turkish Get ups and windmills will help enormously with your shoulder mobility, core and lockout strength...do some every workout as a warmup, as a workout or as a finisher...Enjoy

[kbellguy]

Hi Guys

Yep agree with above, I mainly use the 40 for pressing and performing the jerk, very helpful with the 24's. I have got more comfortable with the 2 24's by working the 2 32's. I found that you only get good at doubles by practicing doubles and better again by training with some bells heavier. Also the proper method of breathing to be vital, mainly in 2 ways...keeping enery levels up and to take the focus off the pain. You can do all of the assistance exercises under the sun, but nothing beats the actual practice of doubles. i posted an earlier question in regards to 1alccj and carry over to 2alccj, after practice I came to the conclusion it had no carry over what-so-ever. If your great at singles thats about it! no help with the doubles! thats my experience anyway. As with albi I mainly work with the 32's as it makes sense to develop strength this way, I also work a lot with the 24's and then 20's on a light day. If you have the cash a pair of 32's is worth while, and a heavy one bulldog etc.

Cheers
Mat

[Tom M-W]

One legged dead lifts- you beauty!!! I hadn't thought of them at all. I just gave them ago - they're great, and my weights will give me plenty of development to do - cheers!!! I also created a step up bench, that worked me over, so I'm a happy man.

Jason, listen to Albi, Paul and Mat re: lockout. The lockout/ jerk is probably my strength, so I don't really know why! My clean to rack is my 'spaz out' area. I love the bent press, but that may be too hard at this point. Do more presses, jerks and lockouts (hold for time - but don't go to failure), If lockouts are impossible, just work on getting a lockout with your lightess weight (maybe get a lighter bell). Once that gets OK, work on holding the lockout for time- say 2 breaths then 5 sec, 10sec, etc. The usual advice runs the same lines - DO MORE!!! Do it a lot, etc. Read Pavel's "grease the groove for strength" article on Dragondoor. Most things that are worth anything take ages to get good at them. GS is really difficult, so it's going to take a lot of work and time to get good at it. Create a long term plan. Mine is to be using 2 x 24kg in LCCJ comps by the time I'm 40 - I've got 2 years. Your plan is going to have a focus on lockouts, as you won't make any reps with out it!!!

I hope that's helpful.

Tom

[Bronson]

Thanks guys. I'm off right now to get into it !!

[boots]

Agree on the long term plan Tom. I have around 5 months with one 16 since I started. Have a knee issue which is currently being addressed but has held me back. Next step is two 16's and I'm happy to stay there for the rest of the year. There are enough variations to keep anyone stretched. 2010 looking for two twenties but my long term is two 24's for comp style timed sets. BTW I have 56 years behind me and intend to be at my peak around 60......70......80

PS I do have a history of conventional weightlifting so not totally unconditioned

cheers

[Tom M-W]

Welcome Boots! 56 nice time to start. I hope to be at my peak when I'm 60.....70..... I like your style. I noticed your other post, your one fit guy- nice. And excellent advice by JD on the trying to lift heavier weights to quickly! I might be pushing the 2 x24's dream a little hard. Slow and steady wins the the GS improvement race! BUT.... It's good to dream / have a goal.

In light of that, I think that I won't get any heavier bells for now, my 16, 20, 24's will give me plenty of development over the next year or 2. Especially since Albi put me on to the one legged DL's (and Andrews post.) I've got very sore glutes as a result! I found a weak link. So I think I'll go the Sandbag, and probably the Rings, and leave it at that. Paul recons 14 rpm is possible with the 16's LCCJ so I've still got 38 reps to find (that won't be easy work, but my conditioning will be...getting there- If I get near that I'll be the fittest I've ever been. EASY!)

Re: Rings, these may not be the most beneficial GS purchase, but I just like them. At the local park there is a metal set and I really enjoy using them. I can do a few of the moves from the video Rick provided (even managing to hold myself semi-horizontal for a little while- facing down,) So I want to do more of that. Also I have a want to get better at chin-ups. I was completely hopeless on these, and since using KB's I have steadily improved, pbs (on a non-fixed swinging bar): 8, or 3 with 20kg hanging from me. I figure the rings will improve this. One thing that's made a huge difference, is losing weight. I've lost 9kg now, and the chins have never been easier. Also, often my kids hang out in the shed when I'm exercising - I figure they can swing on the rings whilst I churn out the reps. Any thoughts on Rings?

Tom.

[Bronson]

Tom the rings are great I use mine a lot, regarding the weighted chins, breathing ladders on them greatly helped my chins. I normally do 1 - 6, after a few of these you have done a bit of volume without over stressing your work capacity. As I also have dodgy shoulders from past sporting exploits I find the allow natural shoulder/arm tracking which helps greatly. Most of all I like the fact they can fit in my work bag when I am away with work, and I always have a versatile mobile gym !